BOWL Magazine Interview: BRUCE MERRIMAN

Summer 2000

Even though Bruce Merriman was born and raised in Annandale and always has lived in the area, he had never stepped inside a bowling center until age 25. Looking for something to do in 1974, he stopped by Bowl America Manassas and met bowler John Sudduth, who immediately became his friend, taught him how to bowl, and got him into a league three weeks later.

Merriman recently sat with Editor Bob Cosgrove at Bowl America Duke and talked about his career, his pro shop, the pro shop business, the bowling business, and other topics of interest.

Was your original investment in Sports Plus a risk for you? Was it scary?

At the time that came along, I was pretty much decided that I wanted to get out of my career by the time I was 40 or 45. I needed something else to get involved in. I was actively looking for something to get involved in. The two just kind of fell together—right time and right place.

I was never scared by it because I was never counting on it to succeed. If it did, it was a bonus. But if it didn't, it wasn't any major loss—financially, but not otherwise.

You eventually purchased Sports Plus outright. How did "slash Carmen Don" come about?

I brought in Chuck Dasenbrook, so it was Chuck, Jerry [Francomano], and I. Two years later, Jim Robinette [of the Carmen Don Pro Shop] approached us to discuss the potential for a merger. We had dinner a couple of times and talked about it and decided it was really something we didn't want to do.

So they asked us if we were interested in buying Carmen Don. I wasn't, but Jerry and Chuck were. And as the 45 percent partner who wasn't actively involved in the business because I was still working at that point, I had the veto right to say, No, we're not going to do it. But it didn't seem fair to do it that way, so I kind of went along for the ride.

The deal closed in July of 1987.

So you had trepidations with the Carmen Don deal?

Major fears. It was clearly heading in the direction I didn't know that I wanted to head. I was looking to get out of my other career, and I wasn't interested in starting a new one that was that big. I wanted some place to hang out and have fun!

Major fears at that point.

What was your ownership position?

I owned 45 percent, Chuck owned 45 percent, and Jerry owned 10 percent. Chuck and I had the voting stock.

Were you a hands-off owner?

I was there in the evenings after I got off my regular job, on weekends and stuff. I was involved, but I didn't have any specific duties. I was learning the business, learning the people, making contacts with the distributors and manufacturers—meeting these people and planning the future.

There was another big change that happened there: In about 1993, we separated the bowling business and the trophy business into two separate companies. I first bought Chuck out and sold him the trophy business. Jerry and I stayed, so at that point, I owned 90 percent of Sports Plus/Carmen Don, and Jerry owned 10. That continued for another two years, and then I bought out Jerry's 10 percent.

So now, it's all mine, and I have no choice: I have to be there.

Why were the businesses separated?

It was what got us into Carmen Don's in the first place. They wanted to go in a totally different direction that I wanted to go. They wanted to own and dominate the bowling business—the bowling world—on a national level. My interest was more locally—a much smaller-scale operation.

How would they dominate nationally from a single location?

They already were talking about branching off into other locations. They had had some major meetings at that time with AMF about opening pro shops in all of their bowling centers. We had discussions with three different ball companies about taking over their booths at the nationals. There were all kinds of things that got blown around.

What do you normally do at the shop?

I handle almost all of the administrative parts of the pro shop, coordinate the marketing and promotion of the pro shop, and have hands-on control of everything that happens there.

Is there a "Bruce Merriman philosophy" that you attempt to drill into your staff?

It's been written up before, so I hate to say it again, but it's still true today: The customer is king. Everybody on my staff has the authority to do whatever they feel needs to be done, within reason, to solve a problem.

I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would agree that we've gone out of our way—gone way overboard—to fix something that they perceive to be a problem. My staff sometimes looks at me like I'm crazy, but that's just who and what I am.

If I have an unhappy customer, I want to see what I can do to make him happy—excepting that there are people out there who are too demanding, and there's no way you can make them happy. But with the vast majority of them, you can.

It appears a safe bet that you evaluate each business you visit to see if your philosophy is being carried out.

Most definitely. I make my buying decisions based on that—personally and professionally.

What percentage of the places you visit meet your standards?

Five [percent]-10 maybe, max have very high standards. I don't meet my standards; I'd like to meet my standards. [With] the work environment we have in this area, you can try as hard as you want, but you just can't do it. It's an employee market in this area. Bowling is a low-profit business. I can't compete against AOL that's willing to spend $15 an hour for clerical people. And I see it in every business I go in.

I probably walk out of three or four restaurants a month without eating because I'm that dissatisfied with the service that's in there. I eat out almost every night. I have my regular restaurants I go to, and I have regular personnel in those restaurants that I ask for and wait for. The Four Seasons Diner almost always offers top service.

Is your staff able to make a personal evaluation of each new ball rather than accept the PR from the ball company?

They do make an evaluation of every ball that comes out based on the technical specs provided by the companies. Unfortunately, in this day and age, with the number of balls coming out, we no longer have the luxury of being able to drill a couple up and go out and see what they do. It would be great if they could, but they don't have that luxury anymore.

We try to make sure everybody on the staff thoroughly understands the design characteristics and the expectations for a bowling ball before we put it on display.

What could equipment manufacturers do to make things better for your business?

The obvious first answer is bring out less balls so we have more time to evaluate them. We've got to get to know them and get them in the hands of some our better area bowlers to see how the balls are going to perform before we have to start worrying about getting it off the shelf because it's going to be dead.

[For] a lot of balls that come out, we never get the opportunity to drill a big enough quantity of them and see them in different people's hands to determine who that ball's going to work best for before the ball is dead.

Is it frustrating not knowing everything you want to know?

We thoroughly understand some significant part of the balls on the market because we've kind of taken the approach that I'd rather understand what these 60 are going to do and have extensive knowledge of these 60 instead of having 100 of them in here and settling for a little bit less.

Have complaints slowed the pace of the "ball a month" tactics of the manufacturers?

Unfortunately, it seems to be speeding up. I don't remember the exact number, but one of the major distributors that I deal with puts out a report once a quarter telling me how many new balls were released and categorizing them. It was like 1.8 balls a week last year from the five major manufacturers. Let's bring in 1.8 balls a week and evaluate those balls!

A couple of the manufacturers have started bringing out lines of balls. They don't send you a ball and a week later send you another one: They bring out six or eight all at one time. It's a major studying process to go through to evaluate a whole new line of bowling balls all at one time.

How has the shelf life for a bowling ball changed in the last 10-15 years?

If the ball was good, it was at least a season and possibly longer. Now it's a month or six weeks.

I used to buy quantities of balls. If I found a ball I liked, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a quantity of them. Now I hardly ever buy more than a dozen of anything at a given time; I just bring them in more frequently. So the ordering process has gotten certainly more time-consuming at the pro shops.

Do distributors take back equipment that doesn't sell?

They all have different policies and practices—none of which I use! I have a good relationship with the couple of primary suppliers that I have. One of the reasons I do is because I feel like if I buy the ball, I've made the decision to acquire that product, and it's mine. I'm not interested in shipping it back to him. I'll find a way to get rid of it.

But that's not the case with many or some of your colleagues?

It's also a factor of size. I've got enough customers going through the shop in a month's time that somebody's going to come through that has an interest in just about any ball out there on the market. Some of the smaller shops are guessing what their customers are going to want—just as we do. But if they guess wrong, it can sit there on the shelf forever. Nothing stays in our shop; everything turns over every 60 days.

So your relationships with your suppliers are fairly smooth.

I've shopped around, and I've met personally with these people and I've discussed my business philosophies with them and I've discussed theirs and I've tried to find a mix that works. The vast majority of the distributors and pro shops out there are looking at price as their primary focus, and it's never been my primary focus—service has been. Not only for my staff but for their staff: Is this distributor going to take care of me?

Can you think of the last fast-selling product that has forced you to make calls to your distributor?

Ebonite's new Yankee Doodle ball and before that, the Skull ball. With the Skull ball, I called every distributor in the IBPSIA journal, and I ordered every one they had. But every one they had consisted of, "Oh, I can give you two." or "I can give you eight...." My primary distributor shipped me something like 80. Everybody else was shipping me two or three. Everybody wanted the Skull.

How has increased open play and decline of organized play affect your business?

The bowling pro shop business went through major good times the first few years reactive balls were coming out. Everybody had to have one, and everybody had to have one of everything that came out. The people were doing phenomenal—ridiculous numbers. And then the bottom kind of fell out overnight. The numbers that we established the first year the bottom fell out were still nice numbers—and we've grown from that every year since then. So we're continuing to grow in a declining market.

So is it affecting me? Yes and no. I can be growing a lot faster if bowling were continuing to grow—or organized bowling were continuing to grow. My business would be growing significantly faster, but I don't want my business to grow significantly faster, so in a way, I guess it's a blessing for our shop personally.

How has the International Bowling Pro Shops & Instructors Association's formation affected your business, and are you a strong supporter of the organization?

I'm a believer in IBPSIA, but I wouldn't say I'm a strong supporter. Initially, we were very active in it. I think they've got the right idea.

In my opinion, the funding is not there to do some of the things that they've been talking 10 years about doing. And in the bowling business, I don't think there ever will be. The majority of the funding has got to come from the pro shops, and the pro shops are typically low-profit businesses that can't afford to spend $2,000 a year for dues to support this elaborate budget.

What things has IBPSIA talked about that haven't been done?

I think the whole educational process—the pro shop training program they have—could certainly be expanded and be more accessible to the membership. There are a lot of shops that can't afford to fly their staff to Las Vegas to attend the seminars and learn from the experts.

I think they could also benefit from putting in more effort in determining who the experts are.

Are some members masquerading as experts?

The bowling community is a small community, and it's pretty easy to build a reputation in the bowling community. And the people with the reputations are the ones running the programs and the shows. And they're not necessarily the ... they're not qualified for the job they're doing.

There's more to running a pro shop than knowing how to drill a bowling ball-customer service, the business end of it. There are a lot of pro shops out there that could benefit greatly from having more training and knowledge and understanding of running the business end of the pro shop instead of the technical ability to drill a bowling ball.

I see a lot of pro shops struggling; I see a lot of pro shops going out of business—and they shouldn't. Bowling is declining, but there's still a significant market there.

If these people had a better understanding of what running a business is all about, they would be surviving. They may not be growing, but they certainly would be surviving.

But even for the ones that do make the commitment to send their staff to one of these week-long or several-day training sessions, the vast majority of what they're taught while they're there is how to lay out and drill a bowling ball. There's so much more than there is.

The manufacturers have gotten involved in some of it over the past few years. Ebonite has a very excellent program—"Striking Effects"—where they come in and look at your shop. They design a layout for your shop. They provide you the merchandising fixtures and whatever you need to lay out your shop and have it look like a professional program that helps you sell your merchandise-instead of a dirty hole in the wall.

It's a good program, but it's very expensive.

How important is it for your shop to cultivate relationships with bowling centers?

It's an ongoing program, an ongoing project. In this area, we're dealing primarily with corporate bowling centers, a lot of turnover. Every time there's a management change in one of the bowling centers, we're back to ground zero, and we have to start over. But it needs to be done, and we do it.

My staff and I try and get out and meet the people in these bowling centers as soon as possible and let them know we're there to work with them and help them in any way we can. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. We do ball repairs for them, we work out deals with them to drill their balls for them in their ball leagues. We organize tournaments for their centers, we organize leagues for their centers, we help with league recruitment for some of their centers for the managers that are interested in working with us and want our help.

Amazingly, there are some out there that don't want it! It's I'm the expert here, you're just a pro shop.... You can't do much about that mentality. You can offer the help and try to develop a relationship. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

How many centers do you have a relationship with?

There are at least eight that we have a good relationship with—some better than others, but a good relationship—and a couple of others that we work with occasionally.

What is your relationship with your fellow pro shop operators?

Not as good as I would like it to be-and I don't know why. Except that we're the biggest in the area—we're one of the biggest in the country—and there's a certain degree of responsibility that comes with that.

I have invited the other pro shop owners to lunch. My treat: Let's just sit around the table and chat for a couple of hours. You know how it goes.

The NCABA invited the pro shop owners to its office last year, and three of us showed up. I don't know why. I don't know how you can get through that, but I think it would benefit everybody if we had a better relationship.

How has the typical league bowler changed as a customer through the years?

I think there's a bigger distinction now than there used to be in the hardcore bowler than the league bowler. The typical league bowler these days is more content to buy his one ball each season or whatever. They're achieving as much as they really want to achieve out of their game. They want to enjoy the league experience; they're not necessarily looking for a competitive experience.

When reactives came out, everybody saw dramatic change. There were a lot of people who jumped on the bandwagon and made the effort to get the scores up, get better, and I think a lot of that has died off. It's back to the few competitive leagues; everything else is much more social.

Any particular reason why that desire for improvement died off?

It's tough to point the finger. I think to some extent the pro shops start taking the customers for granted, the bowling centers start taking the customers for granted, and the manufacturers clearly start taking the customers for granted.

So you had a customer feeling as if he's made a wise investment, buying exactly what they wanted or needed to help move their game on to the next level, and the first thing they hear when they walk into the bowling center is something negative.

Generally speaking, are today's customers better educated when they come to you?

Better educated, yes. I think every generation has had the terms of change, the things they're confused about now with change, but they're still confused.

Back in the days when we were dealing with Yellow Dots, they didn't understand what a "bleeder" was and what effect finger weight, side weight, and top weight had on a bowling ball. Now they're looking at mass biases, etc. Some of them are still confused, but they're confused about different things.

Publications like Bowling This Month and Bowlers Journal are helping them better understand what's going on. There's a lot of information out there for them to absorb.

Generally, I'd have to say that they're more knowledgeable than they were 10 years ago.

Has the price of high-tech balls affected the buying habits of the competitive bowler?

There are a lot of balls coming out—a lot of new technology coming out. The hardcore competitive bowlers are buying what they need. I don't see them backing off the size of their arsenal.

But no, they're not buying every high-tech ball that comes out because as soon as Brunswick comes out with a ball with a new surface, every other ball company out there is going to come out with a comparable product that's going to do a similar thing. Sometimes even in their own line, you've got two balls that are basically the same ball.

So they're buying as many as they were buying before, but they're not getting everything that comes out because there's so much more coming out. They're buying everything different that comes out.

And there's other markets to buy them in now. The league bowler wants the convenience of being able to drop into a pro shop and pick up a ball and have it drilled and go on his way.

A hardcore bowler who's going to buy 20 or 30 balls a year doesn't mind waiting a couple of weeks for the ball to get here. He goes off to the tournament, and there's a ball rep or whoever there who'll be happy to take an order for a bowling ball for him and ship it to him in a week to 10 days. Or he can go on the Internet and buy it, or he can get on the telephone and buy it. He then takes it to his local pro shop and gets it drilled.

Do they save any money? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

What events does your pro shop sponsor?

On an ongoing basis right now, nothing. We made a commitment about three years ago to help provide some competitive opportunities in this area for youth bowlers. We run our youth/adult tournament eight or 10 times a year, we try to run a singles tournament six or eight times a year, we've tried a couple of major singles tournaments with significant scholarship prizes a couple times a year the last two years. We've offered our support to some other youth tournaments that are in the area.

Have the results been disappointing or not as well as you would have liked?

Definitely not as well as I would have liked. Again, it's that situation of how do you market and how do you sell. I don't have access to all the bowlers in the area. The bowling centers are very protective of their customer base, and a lot of the pro shops in the area are protective of their customer base.

If I'm doing a tournament, I can send Gary Parsons [of Red Nelson's Bowlers World in Camp Springs] flyers from that tournament. Gary's going to make sure his youth bowlers get those flyers because he believes it's the right thing to do for bowling. If I send them to other pro shops in the area, it's Why do I want to let one of my customers go bowl in this guy's tournament? Maybe he'll end up being their customer.

Maybe he will, but that's a choice he or she's got to make. We have some supporters who help us get the word out on these things, but not as well as we could.

How did you get involved in sponsoring pro bowlers?

I guess it all came from Rich [Wolfe]. Rich came along with Carmen Don [Pro Shop] when we bought Carmen Don. I'd known Rich a long time and had offered him sponsorships before then. He was selling shares in himself the first few years he was out. We sponsored him for a couple of years. He introduced us to other people.

We looked around for other people ourselves. We kept hearing about Danny Wiseman in Baltimore, this quality local bowler who had the talent, had the ability, and nobody was giving him a chance. We had dinner with him one night and talked to him a little bit and decided to give him a chance. He bowled for us a couple of years.

I met Eric Forkel through Rich. Various people have approached us over the years and sent us resumés. It's not something we set out to do; it just evolved.

Was there a goal in becoming a sponsor?

Not really. We certainly looked at it as an opportunity to have a name that could help us market and promote our shop. But professional bowling being what it is, these men don't have time to help you market and promote your shop; they're too busy marketing and promoting themselves just to get by.

Are you sponsoring anyone now?

At the moment, no one.

And if the right opportunity came along?

If the right opportunity came along, it's something I would certainly consider. The assumption is that somewhere in the future [shop manager] Jimmy Lewis is going to want to go out and try the tour for some period of time. We certainly intend to be involved with that. To what level, I don't know. But it could happen.

And if somebody else were to come out of the woodwork that wanted a shot, I'd certainly consider it, but I'm not out actively looking for anybody. There's too much instability out there on the tour right now, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for anybody to be out there.

There's not a lot of business people in bowling
I still encounter on a regular basis.
You're talking to people in responsible positions
with ball companies and distributors
and pro shop owners
who don't have a clue.

How do you use computers in your shop?

This is pathetic, but almost not at all.

Is there one part of your business that you'd be most interested to have computerized?

I would definitely like to have the capability of tracing a customer's history—what equipment has he purchased from us over the past five years, how did we lay it out, what changes did we make to his specs, the whole nine yards so you could sit down and instead of trying to remember or asking them questions, you've got it right there in black and white. You can look at it and say, "Two balls ago, we tried what you're talking about doing now and...." "Oh, you're right: We tried that, and I wasn't happy with that. Let's forget that!"

But that all boils down once again to the availability of staff in the pro shops. It's all data entry problems: What comes out is only as good as what goes in.

So you have a card file on customers?

Yes: A hard copy paper file that we sit there and flip through a pile of papers looking for their specs. It works, it's effective, but....

You can see the advantage of having the file computerized.

If there was some way to maintain quality control of it at a reasonable cost, yes. I have looked at several of the systems that are out there on the market. I just haven't found anything that really struck me as being worth the time and the effort.

Did you suffer the same panic that many of your colleagues did upon realizing that people could buy bowling equipment cheaper over the Internet than the pro shops could sell it?

No. I like to believe I reacted the same way I did when the pro shops went through their other panics.

I remember that at the first IBPSIA convention I went to, the major topic of discussion throughout the whole week was all of these Have-A-Ball leagues that Fair Lanes at that time was going to do and how were we going to stop this.

The sad reality of this is we're not going to stop this. I look at it as another situation I have to adapt to. Am I going to sell less bowling balls? Yes. Am I going to have more drill-onlys? Most definitely. I already do, and I'm sure it's going to continue to grow.

There's a distinction between the bowler who's willing to wait a week or 10 days to get his bowling ball from Las Vegas or wherever and the bowler who wants to come over before his league tonight and drill up a new ball. There needs to be pro shops to serve that customer, and you need to be providing them something that lets them know you're worth the extra 20 bucks.

We've always had [drill-only pricing] because you always had to deal with Aunt Harriet buying someone a ball for his or her birthday and then having to get it drilled somewhere. So the volume just dramatically increased when the Have-A-Ball leagues started, and it's increasing now with Internet sales.

I don't see it as a problem; I see it as a change.

You changed addresses on Duke Street a few years ago. How has that affected business?

You mentioned scary earlier. That was probably the scariest thing we ever did! I was pleasantly shocked to find that it had almost no effect on the business. Over the years, we developed an extensive mailing list. We sent a postcard out to everyone on our mailing list saying that we were moving. We put ads in BOWL Magazine, we put flyers in the bowling centers that would allow us to put them out. We moved on a weekend, and on Monday it was business as usual.

What's been your biggest mistake in the business?

Gosh, I've made so many, that's hard to say! Growing too fast the first five years we were in the business—we definitely went through some major growing pains. Orderly growth would have been a lot better.

What would you like to have done differently?

I can't think of a single specific example. I just know we were so absorbed in the growth that we didn't have time to do the things we should have been doing, like not signing the last lease that we signed at Fox Chase. When we bought Carmen Don, we took over their existing lease, which had three years left or something. That three years should have been plenty of time to evaluate it and say, Why are we spending all of this money renting a piece of property? Instead, we signed a new lease and bought in for another five years.

What's been the best moment you've had in the business?

To answer that, I've got to look at the different parts of the business. Danny Wiseman winning his first tournament was a major event. I really felt good about having been involved in him getting the opportunity to do what he was capable of doing.

I love our tournaments, particularly our youth/adult tournaments. Last week, we had Rawlin Jefferson and his mom out there bowling in the tournament, and they were having fun together. We created a situation where the kid didn't go off to a Saturday morning youth league and mom did her shopping. Mom didn't go off and bowl with her friends and leave the kid home with his big sister or whatever. Mom and this kid went out there and bowled together and had fun for three hours.

I really enjoy that part of the business. I go home feeling good.

What's something that has surprised you the most about the pro shop business?

The biggest surprise is the people in the business. I've been involved in a lot of different businesses in my life; there's not a lot of business people in bowling I still encounter on a regular basis. You're talking to people in responsible positions with ball companies and distributors and pro shop owners who don't have a clue.

Bowling is not Microsoft, but it's not a nickel and dime business out here, either. It's a real business world with real dollars.

And the people running bowling constantly amaze me. You've got a couple of groups, I see these people out here busting their butt on a volunteer basis only to be trashed by the very people that they're working so hard for.

You bowlers and business people: You go to a job everyday, you go to your office, whatever it is you do, and you know what it takes to make things happen. Take a few minutes once in a while and think about what it takes to make this tournament happen or this league happen and show some appreciation for these people who are out here volunteering their time.

That guy who showed up and gave you your 700 pin the other night didn't have to be there; he could have been home watching TV.

And the corporate people around here: I don't know how many times over the years I've heard a bowling center manager, when I asked him, "How's your summer filling up?" or "How's your fall filling up?" say, "I'm going to be a little over my budget for the year, so I've kind of cut things back."

When I ask why he's cutting back, he says, "If I'm up 100 bowlers this summer, next summer they'll want me to be up 150."

What kind of policies do we have in place in the bowling industry that discourage the managers out there who have the ability to create bowlers and create interest?

Imagine that: "Because I don't want to set too big a target to meet next year."

What would you want average customer to know about your business?

About the only thing I can think of is that it would be nice for them to know what we really have to go through in dealing with the manufacturers. They go on the manufacturer's web site, what they call the manufacturer's "customer service department," and they tell them, Sure, we've got a lot of those. or We make those. or That's available. And it's not!

We've got people right now who talk to the customer service department at Brunswick. Brunswick's told them, "Yes, there is a recall on the Web balls." They've made arrangements with the pro shops to exchange something for the Web balls to replace the Web ball, and then they'll send it back to us.

Nobody contacted me about taking the Web ball back! But I've had at least a half-dozen people walk into the shop: "Brunswick told me to bring this back to you, and you'd take care of it."

OK!

What are your thoughts about the futures of the men's and women's pro tours?

I'm not pessimistic about either of them. I'm not expecting an Eric Forkel or a Walter Ray Williams Jr. to become as known as Tiger Woods or even a Jack Nicklaus.

I'm optimistic that bowling is going to find its place. There are a lot of sports out there that were not heard of, were nonexistent, 10 or 15 years ago. Cable has changed that. I think the Internet is going to change it again; the Internet is going to help change bowling.

I don't know what these new guys in the PBA are going to do, but they've all been successful, and I'm sure they've got some good ideas. The potential is there. There are some major web sites out there looking for content, willing to spend big bucks for content. Here's content. How you do it, to what extreme you do it, I don't know.

Will they ever be as big as golf? Not a chance—not in my lifetime. Will they be as big as beach volleyball that has some major money tournaments and a major following throughout the world? They certainly have the potential.

What do you do to relax or get away from bowling?

My staff will tell you not frequently enough! I don't have a particular hobby or a particular thing that I like to do. Rich Wolfe and I played golf Tuesday; we had a great time. I came back feeling good, very relaxed.

I've played five or six times this year so far. But Rich and I had such a good time that we're playing again next week.

I like to go out to Manassas to the stock car races once in a while—just sit in the stands, get lost in the crowd and watch the cars go round and round in a circle.

I've got my own private little spot on the Shenandoah River that I just like to drive up to once in a while and just sit there and watch the water flow by and the ducks play on the river. Hopefully, nobody comes by and distracts me so that I don't have to hear anybody while I'm there however many hours I want to stay.

What is the biggest challenge facing the pro shop today?

The biggest challenge is probably maintaining a competent staff in the future. Not only in this market, I see it all over the country.

Bowling is declining, and it's declining dramatically at the junior level. The next Rich Wolfes and Jimmy Lewises and whoever the pro shops will be looking for their talent pool for the future—I don't see 'em out there. I see some bright kids out there, but they've got aspirations beyond working in a pro shop. There are so many more opportunities now for any kid that wants to get ahead than there were 15 or 20 years ago.

There's concern about the future
as far as pro shops surviving.
There'll always be a need for some,
but how many?

What do you envision the pro shop to be like 10 years from now?

I see a whole lot of less merchandise on my shelves. We're clearly going to move into the direction of where people are going to bring the product to me to finish the job.

Because of E-commerce?

Yes, particularly with the direction I see the PBA Tour going. I don't see the customer out there calling me to ask me what ball [the pros] were using. I see it flashed on the bottom of the screen, and if you're interested in buying one, click on this icon, give us your credit card number, and we'll ship one to you.

Is this good in that you may sell fewer balls and bags but instead can focus most of your attention on specializing in the latest technological aspects on your end (drilling, etc.)? Or are you really concerned about the future?

There's concern about the future as far as pro shops surviving. There'll always be a need for some, but how many? And I definitely think it's a negative.

I think about Wal-Mart increasing their sales volume at the expense of the little Mom & Pop shop on the corner that can't make it anymore. I think long-term, that's bad for society.

And that's kind of where I see the pro shops—the little Mom & Pop shop on the corner that really personalized service. You know us, you have a relationship with us. I see you in the bowling center, and you can come up and talk to me....

Do you ever get concerned about getting so big that you'd lose that personal touch?

I think seven or eight years ago we were clearly headed in that mode. Since I've bought the two partners out, hopefully we've turned it around and have gotten back to that and slowed everything down.

Would you ever consider franchising your operation?

For me personally, no. If one of my staff members came to me tomorrow and says, "Look, I tired of being part of the staff; I want my own pro shop," I'd help him set it up in a minute. Anybody that I've got on staff who wants to run their own pro shop, all they need to do is come talk to me. And I think they all know that. In fact, I know they all know that. Do I personally have any interest in it? No. I've looked at the distribution end of the business. Do I have any interest in being a distributor? Definitely not!

Two years after we bought Carmen Don, Roger Tarr calls us one night—"I'm interested in selling my shop. Do you have any interest in buying it?" We went and had dinner with Roger. His [situation] boiled down to kind of a personnel thing-the same thing we're dealing with. Who do I get in here? You lose people in and out of there. He had just had enough and wanted out. I really don't want another shop. Why don't you just close yours up and come to work for us? So he did.

Scott Bailey decided he wanted to get out of the business. Scott and I had a couple of dinners and talked about this. I'm always open to discussion, but I'm definitely not motivated to go there and expand.

Any closing thoughts?

I would definitely like to personally be more involved with people-directly or indirectly-that are interested in promoting or enhancing bowling out there in some manner. I don't think—and this goes back to there not being a lot of business people in bowling—I don't think people look at the pro shop's role in the business market of the bowling business the way I would like them to.

They see it as "us verses them"?

Most definitely. A couple of years ago, as you probably know, we wanted to see what we could do to raise some scholarship funds for youth bowling. And we did a pretty good job of it.

I had to end up running the tournaments myself to give the money away because the people out there who had programs in place—had tournaments in place or whatever—didn't want us sponsoring their tournament.

How can that possibly be a negative? You've got a successful tournament. We're interested in helping you enhance that tournament, and we're asking for nothing in return. I just want to write you a check and walk away. But we got resistance. And I don't know how or why we can change that.

The pro shops need to have a role in bowling; they're not just bowling equipment stores. There are bowling equipment stores out there—pro shops aren't them!

Gary Parsons, Dale Underwood [of Spare Time Sports] in Waldorf, the staff at Sports Plus—we need to be involved. Our job is not to sell bowling balls; it's just a piece of what we're doing.

And how we get the rest of the world to look at it that way, I don't know.

Your job is more than just selling and drilling balls....

Yes. Let's all go sit down at the association office sometime and have a discussion about what we can do to help promote bowling. It's a great idea; let's do it!